[itdiscuss] mac or PC?

Tue Sep 16 16:33:39 EDT 2008

I don't deny that we in IT have a good closet full of asbestos suits.
But I think you misunderstand where I'm coming from..

What I am saying is that there is no such thing as a "PC Network" or a
"MAC Network"; there are PC-skilled IT departments, or MAC-skilled IT
departments, and some (like mine) which have had, under duress I might
add, become both. And yes, it required expenditure on Mac servers, Mac
desktops/laptops and a good chunk of time in training, learning, and
documenting the differences. I'm actually here up at 0430AM in Sydney
making changes to the configuration of our core NetCache proxy so that
it doesn't do NTLM anymore so that it will support MACS cleanly..

No, of course there has not been a drop in support calls; a user will
have issues regardless of what client platform they fly. However, WE
HAVE seen an increase in user happiness, especially from our Senior and
Exec level staff. And this is where the low-hanging fruit is. If you can
show that "IT wants to make it as easy for you" to the Executive and Snr
Pastors, then you win. If you're not at a place where you can
effectively hire / recruit / train someone to be Mac capable then be
open and honest and explain that THAT is why you won't support Macs.
Don't handwave it away and blame it on the network, or the servers or
the client platforms; it's a training / skill issue at its very root. 

Yes, I get requests on a daily basis from my users, and I STRONGLY
ENCOURAGE IT. And yes, we have more vision than resource. I'm not
kidding about 6 support people looking after 1500 users. Our helpdesk
runs hot, and we're constantly getting demands from the Eloi that us
Morlocks can't deliver on. It doesn't give me the right to look my
Senior Pastor in the eye and say "NO", it just gives me the right to say
"We can and would love to, but this is what we need to make it happen."

Again, please hear my heart here; I live in the trenches as much as the
next guy. What I'm saying is that we, as Church IT staff, need to
correctly represent the issues to our leadership (training/personnel/HR)
and not sweep this stuff under the carpet under the guise of
Technocracy. More and more, our Senior people will believe the marketing
hype from Apple, or hear of another church IT team that does support Mac
and PC and whatever.. and then you're going to be on the back foot. I
know it for a fact that many Pastors have gone home from visiting with
us here at Hillsong, telling their IT/Video/Production guys that
"Hillsong is doing so-and-so, why can't we?" because then I get to
counsel/comfort/console them over the phone or email, and showing the
hows and whys. I don't apologize for being on the bleeding edge, but I
am very clear about the level of sacrifice, and cost, that is has taken
to get my team to this point, and the level of support, both financial
and physical, that is needed from a senior level to accomplish it. And
that is where IT gets to shine: when the IT team delivers the gear that
supports and propels forward the vision of your Senior Pastor. 

From: discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org
[mailto:discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Brunson
Sent: Wednesday, 17 September 2008 6:10 AM
To: 'IT Discussion Forum'
Subject: Re: [itdiscuss] mac or PC?

I think you are glossing over the most important point.  Yes, any IT
person can jump in, grab additional training, and make everything work
eventually.  But most IT people I know spend a good portion of their
time putting out fires.  Very little of the time that is left is
available for proactive maintenance.  And the industry is changing on a
daily basis.  If you are going to even keep up with current technology
you are already spending most of your free time learning just to keep
up.  If you are having to support Linux, Mac, and Windows, you can
probably become competent at all 3, but you can probably never become
great at any one.  

By leveraging technology in new and creative ways, you can give users
options they never even dreamed of.  But unless you become really good
with the technologies, you will probably never dig deep enough to make
use of what the technology can actually do.  I'm sure you all get
requests from users on a daily basis where they heard so and so talking
about how some new technology can be leveraged to do some really cool
thing.  And I think it is great that users can come to IT with new
ideas.  But most IT people spend so much time responding to user
requests that they never have time to implement new technology that is
so far above the average users head they couldn't comprehend it.  And it
is that technology that really allows IT to shine.  It allows IT to do
more with less.  Just think about how much virtualization has changed
the landscape in the average server room.  

I hear from mac people all the time "I have a mac and pc on my desk, and
use them both."  But the mac cost money and the pc cost money.  I hear
people say "just buy a mac and run windows on it, that way you get the
best of both worlds."  Okay, now you are paying for more expensive
hardware, plus the cost of the mac os, plus the cost of the windows
license.  Is all that really necessary?  Have you seen a quantifiable
gain in user efficiency?  Have you seen a quantifiable drop in support
calls? 

I know lots of people who would say they can't support macs on a pc
network because they don't have the skills.  Having someone skilled
enough to provide support is expensive.  And most church IT folks I talk
to are seriously underpaid.  How do you justify to your new highly
skilled IT person that he needs to be able to support multiple operating
systems?  Training is expensive.  Hiring someone that already has the
training and experience is expensive.  I guarantee if you want to hire
someone with mac, linux, OR windows skills, you could find someone
within your budget.  But if you need to find someone with 2 or even 3 of
those covered, it gets either more expensive or more difficult to find.

I happen to work for a shop that specializes in windows.  But I am not
trying to make the point that "Windows is best."  I just think that in
the majority of circumstances, standardization is efficiency.  If you
want windows, goes all in for windows as much as possible.  If you want
mac, go all in for mac.  When it is all said and done, the TCO for a
heterogenous network is higher than the TCO for a homogenous network.
That cost may be in dollars, or it may be in less quantifiable areas,
like loss of personal time for IT staff, since they spend all night
every night trying to learn how to provide the same quality support
experience for multiple operating systems.  But should IT people just
assume that they need to hit the books twice as hard because users have
"OS preferences" or should management choose to hire someone to
specialize in the other OS, the cost is there.

Kevin  

From: discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org
[mailto:discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Ollis
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 2:26 PM
To: IT Discussion Forum
Subject: Re: [itdiscuss] mac or PC?

	Ok, so I admit that I'm going to take my "Devils Advocate" cap
off the rack and give it a run..

	But, I see a lot of "We don't run a Mac network; we run a PC
network". So tell me, oh wise ones, what constitutes a PC network? Or
conversely, feel free to tell me what comprises a Mac network.

	Yu see, I don't think that there is any such thing as a "PC
network" anymore, unless you're having the misfortune of running
Netware. It's like saying you run a "PDA network" or an "iPhone
network"; the network is the underlying structure to hang all the server
bits off, and allows PC, Mac, Linux, iPhone, Blackberries and PDA's to
access the data. 

	Taking the Devils's Advocate cap off, I think that what most
people mena when they say "PC network" is that they're not skilled-up in
another area, and it's easier to handwave away a question about Mac or
iPhone integration than actually say "look, we don't have the skills
inhouse to support you properly". And really, that's what everyone
should be saying: "IT wants to support you well, and we can't unless we
have someone on board who is specifically skilled in this area".  I have
yet to find a technical reason why a mac can't happily coexist with PC's
on a network, and happily share data, access Exchange/Lotus,
authenticate and lookup user directories, and print (with the caveat on
printing that mac's haven't tended to support GDI printers as muc has PS
or PCL). Sure, there's some management stuff that's going to be
"different" but please ante up and say what the real issue is, and not
gloss it with the boss about the network not supporting Macs. 

	Or, the other tack is that, as an IT Manager/director, you're
letting personal bias get in the way of other system integration onto
your LAN. I have both Mac and PC on my desk and I now use them equally.
Wasn't always the case, but I've forced myself to push past the "It's
too hard to do on Mac" to actively find ways of doing it. And I'd say
that Hillsong is better for it. The Mac lovers get to to use their Macs,
PC lovers get to use their Macs, and the Linux lovers (I have a couple)
get to use their Linux laptops as well. Smartphone users can select from
iPhone, Blackberry, Windows Mobile or even Palm, and it all works.
Different technologies, different limitations, but the tools of choice
for our teams are usable. 

	Does it mean I'm going to swap my Blackberry Bold for a Treo or
iPhone? Nup.. I just have to have the attitude of a support team that
takes a little time, gleans some basic support stuff from Google and
volunteers, and set the Acceptable Use Policy to match. 

	My $0.02 worth.. Your mileage may vary

	Steve Ollis
	Supporting 1500 users with 6 staff across 16 sites

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The material contained in this email may be confidential, and may also
be the subject of copyright and/or privileged information. If you are
not the intended recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this
document is prohibited. If you have received this document in error,
please advise the sender and delete the document.

This email communication does not create or vary any contractual
relationship between Hillsong and you. Internet communications are not
secure and accordingly Hillsong does not accept any legal liability
for the contents of this message.

Please note that neither Hillsong nor the sender accepts any
responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan the
email and any attachments.

Hillsong
www.hillsong.com

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