[itdiscuss] mac or PC?

Wed Sep 17 10:16:46 EDT 2008

We run Macs in our Citrix environment, but mainly as laptops. Here is a great case: You have a youth pastor who, in most offices, will have a laptop. He is, as many pastors, fairly technically minded. He texts, he is on YouTube, and dabbles with making funny videos. Having a Mac simply makes sense. He can do all the necessary things for the office via Microsoft Office 2008. His Mac syncs his files for offline use just like a PC. He authenticates against Active Directory. And I update his computer via Remote Desktop (far better than just about any Windows management, sad to say-it is so ridiculously easy). In this case, a Mac actually increases his effectiveness (and mine) in accomplishing ministry within the church.

But our youth pastor does not want a Mac. But he saw the value so instantly in having one to be able to take their video camera on retreats and make highlight videos on the spot for rallies, that he said, "I don't want to use it day and day out, but I would love to have a laptop we could assign to an intern whose responsibilities will now include such videos..." He didn't want to switch for a lot of reasons people don't switch. But I think we both walked away feeling like we had the right technology to meet the need. (Incidentally, I have had 5 people switch to Mac, and 3 of them are new to Mac; I get far less calls from them than most users).

In another area, Graphic Design, I would almost certainly recommend a Mac. But when the time came, we didn't buy one for that person. Why? Because we have larger printing issues. We have very specific network printers provided through a contract, and we wanted to make sure there were no issues (i.e., our printers only support Windows native print drivers; no emulation).

What I am saying is this: today's world is becoming increasingly heterogeneous. Often times there good reasons to buy a Mac for a particular ministry role, and often times there are not. If one designs their network well, ideally, I think it would be able to support whatever tools the ministry needs to accomplish its mission (don't hear what I am not saying; you are talking to a firm believer and implementer in network policies and standards). We are not throwing standards out the window; we are just adding one more option to the standards list.

Lastly, the cost. I can't tell you how many times I talk about the cost of a computer. In the non-profit world, all too often we get sticker shock, especially in computers, because money is so sparse. And we have a real concern for stewardship. I know many you, my friends, have much more limited budgets than I, (though mine is certainly limited, too!). So let's talk money.

*         1/3 the cost of a computer over its lifespan is the purchase price. 2/3 is support and maintenance. If you run the numbers on how much it costs to support the computers, you will see this play out. This is why I typically buy IBM laptops and desktops; they may cost more out of the gate, but I reap the benefits in the other 2/3 with lower management/repair costs.

*         The average network administrator can support only so many computers and servers. Just as virtualization increases a Server Admin's capacity to manage by simplifying and automating processes, so an all-Mac network would accomplish the same. I made a solid case to our church that an all-Mac network cost less. We didn't do it; we chose a server-based computing model instead. But over its lifespan, it would have cost less, and as a part-time employee, my capacity to manage it would have been much greater.

*         What this boils down to is this: I can make a serious case for stewardship using either Macs or PCs. I think far too often when we talk stewardship we only consider purchase price and not the Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) over the useful (or designated) lifespan.

Things are not as they used to be, my friends, not even 10 years ago. I think my main challenge as a Network Administrator is to find time for continuing training and development, to stay current on what is happening and changing to take full advantage of technology and its best applications for our ministry. Sometimes that means Macs, sometimes it means virtualization, sometimes it means thin clients, and sometimes it means good, old-fashioned Windows desktops and laptops. Whatever it means, I pray it is utilized for God's glory.

Dan Barber
Network Administrator
Kirk of the Hills

From: discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org [mailto:discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org] On Behalf Of Mike Walter
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 9:45 PM
To: IT Discussion Forum
Subject: Re: [itdiscuss] mac or PC?

This is a great discussion and I'm glad it's something that we are talking about.   Has the concept been mentioned or thought through that whether the end user has a MAC or PC could be a smaller function of the network?

I guess I'm asking how Server-based computing may fit into this question or change it?  For example, with Server-based computing options like Citrix, VDI, etc...  the servers (or virtual desktops) are what matters and the 'medium' used to access the server is not the top concern anymore.   Citrix actually implemented a company policy called "BYOPC" which simply means "Bring Your Own PC".  They don't mind which type of computer you use if you work there since the Citrix client can run on both platforms which allows access to all applications.

Our environment is a Citrix environment and our only limitation to supporting MAC computers is ensuring we have in-house knowledge or experience of how to support those MAC computers - but in a much more limited capacity than if apps were installed locally that had to be maintained or updated.   So I wanted to ask... are any of you using a Server-based computing model and if so, how does that impact (or not impact) the Mac versus PC debate?     You may still have to standardize your applications for all users on something like a Microsoft platform, but it may allow the end user to feel more freedom in choosing their own workstation OS.

Thoughts?

Kind Regards,

Mike Walter
Director of Professional Services
(678) 297-0066 x595 | mwalter at xcentric.com<mailto:mwalter at xcentric.com>

[cid:image001.gif at 01C918A3.54ADC520]<http://www.xcentric.com/>

3015 Windward Plaza, Suite 500, Alpharetta, GA 30005
[cid:image002.gif at 01C918A3.54ADC520]866-XCENTRIC |[cid:image003.gif at 01C918A3.54ADC520](678) 297-0190

From: discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org [mailto:discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org] On Behalf Of Glenn Kelley
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 9:53 PM
To: IT Discussion Forum
Subject: Re: [itdiscuss] mac or PC?

Got cha -

I know there are limits :-)

10 years ago - mac would have been a nightmare - but then again so was Windows NT :-)

HAve a great round table

On Sep 16, 2008, at 9:42 PM, Jason Powell wrote:

My boss, Kem Meyer, actually prompted me to tell my IT peers about this blog post and get your input.  Didn't mean to stir up such a discussion on IT Discuss ... just wanted people to post on Beeson's blog because he was asking for public input.

However, it's fun seeing all the comments on here too.  Anyone object to me passing them on (I'll remove names)?

For the record: NO, "we" did not take his mac away.  I don't know the story but he stopped using a mac like 10yrs ago :)  There are other bits of "helpful" info that are missing from his blog post, but that's the way it goes.  And just to clarify...I've got Beeson's back 100%.

I disagree with some of the thoughts in some of the replies, but that just makes life more interesting eh? ;-)

IT and other support departments exist to support ministry ... period!  However, that does NOT mean we say yes to whatever anyone wants.  Often even good intending people want something that will end up being harmful to the organization as a whole.  We have to say NO to a lot of good things so we can say YES to the great things.  Sometimes we say yes to Macs, more often though we say no for many reasons.

Gotta jet ... GCC IT Roundtable tomorrow then 2 Days of Innovate. Busy week on top of all the major IT issues we've had last 2 days.

Jason

Jason Powell
IT Director
Granger Community Church
630 E. University Drive
Granger, IN 46530
574.243.3506, x305 * jpowell at gccwired.com<mailto:jpowell at gccwired.com> * GCCwired.com
http://jpowell.blogs.com<http://jpowell.blogs.com/> - yup, I've got a blog

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