[itdiscuss] 64-bit Windows 2003 Terminal Server

Tue Feb 10 15:08:14 EST 2009

I really like Hyper-V.  There are situations where VMWare makes more sense (playing in the SAN world with VMotion mainly).  I haven't run any benchmarks, but seat of the pants Hyper-V feels every bit as fast as the VMWare products on comparable hardware, and blows the old MS Virtual Server out of the water.

I have 16 virtuals running on a Hyper-V box (datacenter 2008 x64 full installation), with a pretty even mix of Server 2003, Server 2008, and Linux (Ubuntu) boxes.I keep meaning to load a Linux distro that MS actually supports, but just haven't had an opportunity to do it.  I also want to load up a Hyper-V host running on server core, but I need another server before I can go that route.

I currently have 2 server 2008 enterprise terminal servers running on my Hyper-V box.  One is really more of a hotspare in case the primary develops software issues, but gives me the ability to test stuff on a box that is identical to my production box, and snapshots make it a breeze to get back if something breaks.

From: discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org [mailto:discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 1:44 PM
To: IT Discussion Forum
Subject: Re: [itdiscuss] 64-bit Windows 2003 Terminal Server

I would prefer not to virtualize the Terminal Server.  I virtualize everything else but no the Terminal Server.  It's too heavy of an app for VM in my opinion.  I know of many who disagree but I stick with that setup.  I also prefer VMware Server on a separate physical for my Server VMs :)  If I find the Terminal Server isn't using all of the resources then I will shift them to the VMware server.

The pricing scheme for licenses is tempting but in this case I'll pay a little more for higher performance with VMware Server. :)

Anyone using the Hyper-V server for VMs?  How do you like it?  Any problems?  How does it compare to VMware?  Is it possible to virtualize other operating systems with the Microsoft Hyper-V?  Linux plays an important role for me.  :)
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 2:14 PM, Dayron Daugherty <ddaugherty at precept.org<mailto:ddaugherty at precept.org>> wrote:

With those specs why not build a Windows 2008 Datacenter Hyper-V server (we went with data center for the reasons mentioned previously about unlimited virtual instances of any Windows server product) and then make one of your VM's the terminal server? Then create all other VMs you need on demand any time ya want.

For the virtual terminal server you then could use Windows 2008 Enterprise.

Also someone mentioned Windows 2008 remote apps. I've seen some demos of it and it's pretty impressive.

Keep in mind on Windows Data center licensing it's licensed per processor. For a 1 processor license it's $350 or so. So if you have 2 processors you'll need 2 licenses. However... even for $600... unlimited virtual instances of all the current and past server products... sky is the limit.  Of course Terminal server may be heavy on the resources so you could go with Windows 2008 Enterprise 64 and that comes with 4 virtual licenses. That is only $340 and isn't just for a single processor.

After awhile I think you'll see your terminal server isn't using all the RAM. I'd be shocked if it uses 8GB. If you go the virtual route you could then create another VM or 2 using the remaining unused RAM. Might as well build in the ability to use resources vs. looking at all that unused RAM in task manager :).

From: discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org<mailto:discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org> [mailto:discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org<mailto:discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org>] On Behalf Of Thompson, Ken
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 1:32 PM

To: IT Discussion Forum
Subject: Re: [itdiscuss] 64-bit Windows 2003 Terminal Server

We're on 64-bit OS installs and not having any "major" issues. Probably the biggest issues we've had are with print drivers. We're pretty much past these now too.

We've had only one issue with a legacy app - all others (and we have quite a few) have worked fine. The legacy app was one that was developed in house several years back but we're even looking at a different build.

Oh, and IE 64-bit has an issue with Flash - keeps popping up saying "not installed". But, you can install it on the 32-bit IE app (is on Server 08) and it works fine.

Ken

From: discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org<mailto:discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org> [mailto:discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org<mailto:discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org>] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Thompson
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 11:10 AM
To: IT Discussion Forum
Subject: Re: [itdiscuss] 64-bit Windows 2003 Terminal Server

How long ago were you having problems?  Is anyone else still having these problems on the 64-bit Windows Enterprise Server OS?

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 9, 2009, at 10:59 AM, Dan Barber <dbarber at kirkofthehills.org<mailto:dbarber at kirkofthehills.org>> wrote:

Jeffrey,

We deployed 64-bit on 2003 and had tons of problems. First, many applications don't install well because they only run via 32-bit mode. Even though it should still work, it didn't. We also had problems with IE and Firefox.

Ultimately, we killed all our 64-bit servers for TS and went back to 32-bit. Much better. I don't think I am comfortable at this point running everything on 32-bit. Maybe if it was only Office and Windows, but with any other programs (Shelby, for example) I say a no-go.

Dan

From: discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org<mailto:discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org> [mailto:discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Thompson
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 8:11 AM
To: IT Discussion Forum
Subject: Re: [itdiscuss] 64-bit Windows 2003 Terminal Server

I prefer to stay with a system I know can deliver.  However maybe as you experience Server 08 you can share your experiences.  I expect they will be positive.  I'm building a system with this capacity because it has become economically feasible to do so and for a small to medium sized organization I think this represents best value.

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 9:03 AM, Thompson, Ken <Ken.Thompson at mtw.org<mailto:Ken.Thompson at mtw.org>> wrote:

Whew -- that's big. Why / what's calling for a TS with these specs?

Also, have you looked into Server 08? The non-profit licensing for the datacenter version is like $300 and will allow you to build unlimited (well, limited by hardware) virtual servers on one CPU (we use quad cores).

Feel free to talk to us 'cuz we're just moving all our TS's to Server 08 and have built it all out with all the new features of 08.

Ken
IT Manager, MTW

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org<mailto:discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org> [mailto:discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org<mailto:discuss-bounces at itdiscuss.org>] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Thompson
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 8:26 AM
To: IT Discussion Forum

Subject: [itdiscuss] 64-bit Windows 2003 Terminal Server

I'm in the process of building a 64-bit Windows 2003 Terminal Server
that will start with 16GB of RAM and 2.5TB of RAID storage.

Which version of Windows 2003 Server do I need to get so My terminal
server can address all of the memory?

Sent from my iPhone

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